Either Relevant or True » It’s not you, it’s me. Okay, maybe it’s you.

It’s not you, it’s me. Okay, maybe it’s you.

On my regular search of the web for all things KO this past week I saw not one but two separate posts where Keith and Countdown have been taken to task. In “‘Countdown’ with Keith Olbermann Turns Five: Hurting Democrats November Chances?” Jackson Williams’ complaints are more partisan in nature. Regardless of which side of the Democratic contest you’re on, there’s nothing here that you haven’t read elsewhere (and probably in much harsher language):

…everyone has friends in each camp. We can’t “subtract the humanity from the equation,” as Olbermann eloquently agreed in his 2002 Salon essay “Mea Culpa”. If the goal is unity and high turnout in the general election, how does demonizing the choice made by much of his own fan base do the trick?

In “The Problem With ‘Countdown’” Rick Ellis’ complaints are more general:

I genuinely like the guy, and “Countdown” continues to be one of the bright spots of cable news.The problem for me is that “Countdown” is rapidly becoming predictable and generic; a distressing development for a show that really has its own internal vibe and attitude. I still watch the show every night, but there are times when my interest fades, and I find myself hitting the fast forward button to get through a segment.

I do admit that I’m not enjoying the show as much these days as I did in he past. A more general mix of news and features has given way to a near steady diet of politics. I am what you’d call a kind of politics junkie, but even people like me have a saturation point. As near to fed up as I am now of all-politics-all-the-time, I can’t imagine what I’ll feel like come October. And honestly, I miss the days when the show didn’t take itself quite so seriously all the time (especially after watching some of Keith’s Greatest Hits).

What say you, dear readers? How do you all feel about the evolution of Countdown?

Yeah, there’s something that’s been disquieting about the show since about Ohio/Texas, but I think we can chalk that up at least in part to the fact that it’s a desert between then and Pennsylvania, which won’t resolve anything, and North Carolina, which will probably be the point at which even the Clintonian inner circle will realize the jig’s up. And even after that, if the diet is still politics-heavy, I don’t see it improving fantastically, but maybe a smidge.

It could also be that this discomfort stems from the very discomfort the Democrats are feeling with each other and themselves at fighting this fight. The joie de vivre of fighting the good fight is missing, maybe reappearing briefly during “Bushed!” or WPitW, but there’s still an air of unpleasant solemnity and grim determination.

I think there may be a need for the gang to rekindle the spark, or maybe just fan the flame. The show works best when all aboard are having fun, and the last few months have been so bitter and vitriolic among normally kindred spirits that it’s hard to take any kind of delight in that.

Let’s see what happens after the convention. If that doesn’t reignite the masses (whether or not there are Oompa-Loompas involved), it’s going to be a long and cold road to November.

I think we can all agree that things will be better once November has come and gone.

I think because Keith seems committed to the Daily Kos, and they complain a lot about the lighter side of news, he seems hyper self aware of the old “fun” stuff. It has only been recently that he always says “in our 90 seconds of celebrity news…”

Those old clips are funny. I wish they’d do more puppet theatre, that stuff is a pure postmodern joy. I think it is natural for shows to change and/or evolve(?), although you do have to worry about that ‘jump the shark’ factor. I don’t think he is near that stage yet, but you see that phrase being used more and more when people are referring to Keith on the blogs (and these are folks that like him!)

I do not think the politics stuff is going away anytime soon. The ratings for all the cable news networks are up significantly (maybe not as much for FOX) enough for it to continue. David Gregory’s new political show that replaced Tucker’s is already getting double the ratings, (never mind that it is really bad, even though Gregory is good, but would it have killed MSNBC to give Rachel Maddow or some other ‘progressive that is not a white guy’ a show?) Bottom line, though, I think it is the money. The politics stuff is really a ratings bonanza. Maybe Keith is not consciously doing politics for ratings only, but seeing his ‘over a million viewers nightly’ of late, it has to be floating around his brain…

I say, “MORE PUPPETS!”

Hi, Becky,

Interesting question.

Long pause as I am thinking and finding that I have some wildly conflicting reactions.

All one needed to do was to watch the Friday show to see how much less it is without Keith, although Rachel Maddow always adds to whatever program she is on.

(I would also hope that Keith knows how to pronounce Byzantium, even if his stand in does not.)

I have hit the political saturation point several times recently and have not turned on my tv until it was time for Countdown. I also wonder what MSNBC will do with David Gregory’s new show, Race to the White House, once the November election is over?

All of the news networks find themselves all dressed up with no place to go, half way though our Political Magical Mystery Tour, after almost continual primaries and caucuses, and suddenly, the long pause until Pennsylvania.

Talk about filler. I mean, how many times do we need to hear that numerically there is no way Hillary can win this?

There is a Dan Fogelberg song with the line “We are born madly dancing”. That is what so much of the high energy of these pundits, suddenly trapped in waiting, reminds me of. (And, yes, I ended that sentence with a preposition. HA!)

One of the great qualities about Keith and usually Countdown is the recognition of the Absurdity Factor in so much of this. (”A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”.)

As long as that is in place, the strong, necessary moments such as the Special Comments and the current holding of Wal Mart’s feet to the fire actually have more power.

Occasionally, recently, Keith speaks as if he needs to justify his reasoning or to explain himself. That is not who he is or at least not who he has been.

He cannot start to be concerned enough to tailor his show based on what his viewers think or if some people do not agree with some of his statements or programing choices. Including me and most of the rest of us, I think, re MUSTO. Certainly not the anonymous trolls who haunt so many of the political blogs, seeming to have no other purpose in life (Assuming that they are not some form of the undead) except to denigrate and attack others.

My message to Keith would be, “Big Guy, I like and respect you even when I disagree with you because I know that your opinions are well thought out, have a reasoned basis, and that you are open minded and willing to change.”

And, somehow I have managed to quote both Dan Fogelberg and William Shakespeare in the same post.

Sensing a trend.

I had not seen the other responses before posting mine, and yet we all seem to be putting forth one or both of two themes.

One is the deadliness of the imposed time schedule of the Democratic primaries and then the conventions and what follows to Election Day, (only eight months to go, people, less than a full term pregnancy)and the other is the balancing need for levity - it is all news.

Yes, unless we want a President who is intent on Bomb, Bomb, Bombing Iran, we need to pay attention, and our President affects the entire world.

But, there is other news also, the sacred and the profane.

The new battles around Basra are important and so are animal suited sports mascots who attack each other. And, YES, to more Puppet Theatre.

The election has been overtaking and drowning out all other news.

I had my hair stand on end this am to learn that there is a now a proposal to have the Fed take over oversight of financial institutions. Talk about hiring a pack of coyotes to guard the hen house.

If it were not for his seamy sex life (and it is had to imaging Paul Wolfowitz having a sex life let alone a seamy one, not that I wish to imagine either {MIND FREEZE}), he would still be in charge of the Fed, which is some really rich banking interests who are not looking out for me and thee.

Okay, we all know that Hillary padded her resume (What a shock) and that Barack’s pastor has said some things that are alarming white people because he is a black man saying them, but let’s get over it and onto real issues such as how to achieve a peaceful stability in the world, rebuild a crumbling infrastructure at home, get real health care for our citizens, etc.

There is too much grimness.

I am a proud liberal and not afraid of the word, also a proud progressive. I am delighted that Keith so often brings issues that matter to me to the fore, but I do not expect him to tow some party line or walk in lockstep.

I agree with GM. MORE PUPPETS!

I will add more Heart Puppies and Heart Piglets, more Mascots in bizarre costumes fighting and racing, and just more of the general insanity that everyday human existence produces.

Is the Democratic selection fight at present much different? Perhaps it should be the Oddball segment.

:points to Rafismom:

What she said. :D

I’ll be in the minority.

I really prefer the heavier news and politics leaning. I absolutely cannot stand “fluff” on news shows. I turn off the TV when talk of celebrities or American Idol comes on (unless, of course, it happens to be my day to blog).

It is election season, and I want to be as informed as possible (and I love politics). I enjoy getting my news with as little interruption from Brittany/Musto/American Idol as possible. I don’t mind when things take a turn for the silly or funny, but not whole segments that are basically equivalent to the E! network. Because I really, really don’t care. Really.

I also love Keith to death but might have to take a break from the obama/clinton news hour. I feel like it is all that is ever talked about anymore!

Arrow, I don’t think anyone at all is hungry for the return of the Post-Oddball All-Celebrity Bullshit programming, merely for a return of other important stories like say that pesky war or perhaps the economy. You know, those issues voters are most concerned about. There’s so little of consequence going on with the campaigns at the moment it’s more than a little ridiculous to spend as much time on it as they have.

What made me watch Countdown in the first place, back before anyone had herd Keith editorialize, was his incredible wit and deftness with words. I don’t see much of that recently. There was a time when KO said he wrote something like 80% of the show. I doubt that’s the case any more. The program is much more grim and yes, predictable.

What I wouldn’t give for a good Hall of Fame segment!

Thanks, Lucy.

Becky wrote: What I wouldn’t give for a good Hall of Fame segment!

If we are lucky, perhaps tomorrow night! We know that we will be getting the Commander in Chief test and some Worst Persons.

I hope that this “Chance” at the Network slot will not turn the show all serious.

Becky -

I said I preferred news and politics…not just “all-politics-all-the-time”. It’s the candy-coated segments that get thrown in I find to be distracting - like popsicle stick theater. To each his/her/its own.

Becky wrote:
“What made me watch Countdown in the first place, back before anyone had herd Keith editorialize, was his incredible wit and deftness with words.”

Boy, I echo that!! He definitely is the finest WRITER in broadcast journalism today. If you ever read the radio (and even TV) broadcasts of Edward R. Murrow, you can see many similarities. Murrow’s reports read like essays not mere reporting. I think KO’s would as well. I would love to see him write a book of essays, especially if they are brilliant as his special comments.

And…maybe that is an idea … he could do essays, different from Special Comments (which speak truth to power) that discuss his observations about life, culture, absurdities and other takes about America.

I do like the more analysis focus. It used to be, as I think George Carlin said, the best 30 minutes for news before Countdown switched to 30 minutes of Paris and Britney. I’m glad they’ve really stopped with the gossip crap. I think his #1 story tends to be a bit snarky and fun.

Unfortunately, politics right now sells. The CNN program that used to be opposite Countdown was a big rating plus for them. That may be why the lean toward the political. Of course, politics have become the new “reality show” for cable news. It sells and it’s relatively cheap to produce. Nowadays, there is as much gossip and tabloid crap in the political news as it is in “Keeping Tabs.”

I think puppet theatre is fun…but too much would kill it, I think. Maybe they should introduce the Countdown Players who can do more reenactments such as the Larry Craig one. Does cost a bit, though.

I also would like to see Countdown analysts stay more exclusive to Countdown. Seems KO introduces such folks as Rachel Maddow, Dana Milbank, Jonathan Alter, Richard Wolffe…and now I see them on the Gregory, Abrams and even Hardball shows. That makes them old by the time they get back to where they belong.

I think KO is the real draw of Countdown. I think the key to Countdown success is to let Olbermann be Olbermann.

Grimness: I remember what I was like, before the 06 midterm elections in the few months after the Special Comments had begun.

I would call my sister to make sure that she did not miss the show when there was a SC on, and while she was also involved, she would comment on how much she liked ODDBALL, and I was totally confused and thinking, “Wait, this is serious, pay attention.”

Then, the once a month programs that seemed to be all ODDBALL when there was a Republic to Save, for goodness sake.

After the election, when somehow Keith and Jon Turley were not in Gitmo, and the balance of power had taken a slight shift, and I was naive enough to think that the now Democratic Congress could force an end to this war and so many other abuses, I began to relax, and to laugh at Oddball, and I realized how grim I had been.

I still have problems with segments that show people wasting food, such as throwing a truckload of tomatoes at each other, as I have visited so many so called 3rd world countries where food and the funds for it are so scarce. And, I know that there are people right here who also do not get enough nourishment.

But, otherwise, I now find that these segments are a reminder that the human spirit strides forward in giant boots, no matter how much distress surrounds us.

I also do not like the Celebrity/Idol news and much of that creeps me out.

But, Puppet Theatre, that is a statement on the press, on how involved they become in making non stories big stories, with deepening shifts of voice to intone that importance. It is quite wonderful.

My major frustration with the current political coverage is that it is what my mother used to call trying to cause trouble, to get the two Democratic camps to fight with each other.

I would love to hear long passages from the various Economic speeches that were given last week with some sharp analysis.

But, instead, Chuck Todd once again with his evidence that the numbers tell us Hillary cannot win, come on, a new poll at this point tells us nothing really, although I confess to wanting to know how many Republicans crossed over in Ohio because Rush told them to.

The candidates are trying to talk about important issues, all of them are, but most of the news is not covering that but rehashing what might lead to blood in the water.

I have been recovering from bronchitis and spent several days last week in front of the tv with MSNBC running, and the same talking heads appear from program to program and fight over each other about the same old stuff. I finally turned it all off and then was miffed at going to Countdown Friday night for my one news fix of the day to discover no Keith.

Much of the news business is populated by people with a crises mentality. They get off on discord and peril.

Chris Matthews (And I single him out only because I have heard him do it since before the debates began) has been itching for a fight. He and several of the others have been excited beyond belief at the possibility of getting to experience, at last, a brokered convention, not taking into account what the impact of that might be on the country and our political system.

(Feeling a bit mystified as I am certain that Matthews is old enough to recall the Goldwater convention in 1964.)

They only care for the energy of chaos, and the more the better.

Keith is a different animal, he has always been thoughtful and seen connections where others miss them and engaged in dialogues.

And while I enjoy his usual guests (Richard Wolffe, be still my heart), where are Jon Turley and John Dean? Are there suddenly no legal issues involving the current corrupt administration, say Karl Rove’s using the Justice Department in an apparent effort to bring down and imprison the former Governor of Alabama?

I hope that Dan Abrams changing his show to VERDICT does not mean that he now handles all of the stories with a legal angle.

And for anyone who is wondering, yes, there are times when I do shut up.

Count me among those who wish to see “Countdown” get back to it’s roots. I have been watching it since the days of “Michael Jackson Puppet Theater”, and I don’t like this current iteration of the show, either. As much as I enjoy the “special comments”, it has attracted the types who think the show is all about politics, and they are trying to force it into being just that. They even take the “Worst Person in the World” seriously, when most of the time, it’s tongue-in-cheek. Just ask Billy Crystal. Political news has alway been a large part of the show, but it was never meant to be ALL of the show. There IS life outside of Washington, and as pointed out above, not all of it is grim.

I am also a huge political junkie, but I’m tired of the complaints about the “fluff”. Sheesh, the whole lot of it takes up a whole five minutes of a sixty minute show on most day. Big deal. I consider it to be “comic relief”. If some of these complainers actually paid attention to that fluff, they’d realize that Keith and his guests usually treat the subjects of the fluff with the derision and humor they deserve. Even Michael Musto, as bawdy as he is. I’d take Musto over having to constantly listen to the idiotic blatherings of Schmuck Todd any day. He’s getting as bad as Pat Buchanan when it comes to his showing up everywhere 24/7. Don’t these guys sleep?

And, add me to the list of those who would love to see a Hall of Fame segment–or anything else on baseball. This Cubs fan definitely appreciated it when Keith called the HOF folks to the carpet for their latest snubbing of Ron Santo and other deserving players last year.

Even as a Kossack(Go big orange!) I have often thought that some of the Kossacks needed to lighten up.(I also suspect some of them lie about how little television they watch, but that is a post for another day.)Yeah, I find myself occasionally wishing for a space story or a challenging book to come out, just for variety’s sake. I love politics, but surely every little back-and-forth isn’t really news, right? But I’m weird and look forward to the bitchy Musto segments. I love Rachel’s new prominence and I think it’s funny when they have Milbank or Robinson weighing in on a comparatively “goofy” topic.

I have to admit I miss the lighter side crapola. I came for Oddball, I stayed for the liberal sensibility, but I still like the crapola.

I’m a woman of eclectic tastes.

Unlike most of you, I didn’t watch Countdown years ago, but when I viewed the clips on the show’s site (vote for favorite) I was struck by the ease of his demeanor two and three years ago, and a genuine cleverness. I don’t know, but even when he finds something funny now, he seems quite restricted (arms crossed)…and no..I’m not that body language woman. It would be great to see an hour special of those moments–just to break up the unending political coverage.

I’ve been watching “Countdown” since day one, and of late the overpoliticization is getting to me. I was surprised that when his favorite teacher passed on he didn’t dedicate the #1 story to him, as he had in the past when he retired, instead squeezing his passing briefly at the end of a segment.

There’s a certain intelligent impishness missing from the show.

I would have liked to have seen KO interview Peter Morris on the second volume of “A Game of Inches: The Game Behind the Scenes,” or the recent move of the Famous Sausage Race by half an inning, maybe talk about the buzz surrounding the new Indiana Jones film…if only for the last/#1 segment only.

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