Either Relevant or True » It Pays To Think

It Pays To Think

Some of you have read the entirety of the Playboy interview while others have only seen a few quotes floating about. There are two quotes that are causing a bit of upset that I want to talk about. Let’s start with the lesser of the two:

There are chat rooms that get bawdy. One group of women will start analyzing the issues but soon it will devolve into talk about my tie and what they’d like to do about removing my tie. That’s a strange thing about TV, it’s like being on the wrong side of a one-way mirror. You don’t know if it’s a group of Jennifer Lopezes out there undressing with you with their eyes or a bunch of Leona Helmsleys.

Okay, so my first reaction to that is “Your girl may be cute, but she’s no JLo either, Tubby.” Then I turn back into a grownup. I have seen that kind of talk about him online, and it can’t be comfortable (it’s not even comfortable for me - which is one reason I try to keep it to a minimum here). And who hasn’t gotten skeeved by being leered at by someone you found particularly unattractive? So, dear fangirls, what exactly about that statement is offensive? I thought so. Moving on.

The Great Right Wing Echo Chamber landed up on this like flies on shit, and with good reason:

Al Qaeda really hurt us, but not as much as Rupert Murdoch has hurt us, particularly in the case of Fox News. Fox News is worse than Al Qaeda — worse for our society. It’s as dangerous as the Ku Klux Klan ever was.

Oh, Keith.
Say it ain’t so, KO.

If you read the full conversation, carefully and in context, you might think (as I did) that he’s using hyperbole to make a statement about how News Corp. and its neocon agenda has done real damage to the sociopolitical fabric of the country. The problem is, most people will only see that quote. It’s a whopper and it has legs. Change the name Rupert Murdoch to, oh, Keith Olbermann and you have a ridiculous statement tailor made for a Worst Person nom. How many of those asinine quotes we hear on WPItW are culled in just that same fashion - and none of us ever looks for the context? Are you, Mr. Olbermann, now a mirror image of Glenn Beck? John Gibson? BillO? Did you consider that your words might be taken out of context and used against you?

There are so few perfect senses of righteous indignation in the world .. it’d be a pity to spoil yours.

The “Fox worse than hate groups who kill” was a very stupid thing to say. OlbermannWatch (yes they are awful) put a video from one of Keith’s special comments where he rips people who make this very same comparison. It was a terrific point Keith made, too bad he can’t seem to live by it. Imagine for a minute that quote attributed to Charles Gibson, Walter Kronkite, Anderson Cooper, Katie Curic…it would sound truely nutty.

BTW, it ain’t pretty reading the far left defend this by saying “Bill O’Reilly defends Nazis”, bla, bla, bla….yeah, like two wrongs make a right.

I agree Becky and anon from the old ERT blog, Keith shouldn’t have made that comparison.

Let’s hope he learns from this — and never does it again.

I’d like to go on record as saying I find Keith neither hot nor sexy and as far as I’m concerned he can keep his ties on.

I find some of the discussions over at the DU to be very uncomfortable.

As for the KKK comments (Komments?), this from a guy who has shitfits over Republicans and others using Nazi/Hitler comparisons?

Bitch, please…

Let’s not ever do that again. It’s one thing to call Fox News a propaganda machine and right-wing water carriers, but to compare them to the KKK? That might actually be more offensive.

I am guessing here that Keith was going for what Colin Powell was going for in his GQ interview that Countdown discussed last night.

Powell’s quote:

“What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say it’s terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No,” Powell stressed. “Only we can change ourselves. So what is the great threat we are facing.”

I am figuring that KO probably menat to say that Fox and Murdoch and the like pose the real danger to America - that of an erosion of civil liberties, destruction of an impartial justice system, an end to the checks and balances amoungst equal branches of goverment, a deepening of cultural intolerance in our nation and the death of a once united citizentry after 9/11. He just said it way suckier than that (and I agree that as a man of words, he could have done that much better).

As for the first fan sticking point Becky mentions.

1. I like his ties on him.
2. I think most of us here - young or old, gorgeous or not - dislike it when anyone is dismissed summarily because of their looks. He was probably just talking to the fact that this was Playboy doing the interview. Still, that said, no partcularly unattractive woman was leering at him at that moment, skeeving him out, so I am not sure I agree with Becky on this one. That line came off nastier than it needed to.

I should note that I haven’t read the article, only the quotes floating through the ether.

I hope that my comments about his general attractiveness have not contributed to that.But the fact that he can write like that would be hot to me if he looked like a lizard. Am I glad he doesn’t? Yes. Very. But I would never send him hair or follow him in Baldacci’s(?)(assuming of course I ever made it to that coast)
Yeah, that was a mistake…the Klan thing. He could possibly compare “Fixed Noise” and…say
“The Turner Diaries” in terms of world-view distortions and ability of wackos to get their hands on it…at least you’d compare media and media.
But I’m willing to forgive, if he can forgive me for never being a “Fly Girl”.

I’m offended by the Leona Helmsely/J-Lo comment. So he only wants attractive women talking about him? What’s his definition of attractive? Are ugly people and those less-attractive than J-Lo even allowed to watch his show? Or would he prefer it if only the “beautiful” people watch his show? I feel, as an average looking person, that this was a most insulting comment to make. I’ve never oogled him online and I darn sure won’t now after this idiotic comment.

And don’t even get me started on the Fox quote. It was just dumb. But I’ve read elsewhere that a lot of my fellow liberals agree with him but if anyone else had said it, Keith would be making them WPITW. I hate to say this, I really hate to say it and I’m sure it’ll probably be used as ammo elsewhere, but sometimes Keith should just keep his mouth shut.

KO, I may not be JLO but I “ain’t” Leona either. I may be a few years older than you, but I can still knock your socks off…think a burnette Julie Christie in “Away From Her.” We ladies may think you’re hot, but don’t let it go to your silver fox’d mane…sometimes the mind is sexier than the bod.

As for the Fox comment, I’ll give KO the likelihood it wasn’t completely in context and that he was attempting to say that the slant news of Fox and the other neo-con spin zones are dangerous because they spew propaganda without examination. As John Dean mentioned, what the Bush Administration (and the neo-cons leading up to it) have done against the Constitution, civil rights and human rights is more dangerous to this country than any outside terrorist group. Lives and infrastructure are meaningless if the US gives up its democracy for temporary security. And I bet that the KKK gang don’t watch MSNBC as a rule, either.

That said, KO be aware of what you say because you do represent the opposite mindset, and your detractors want to do anything to discredit you (an hence your views and those of like mind). The viewpoints expressed by you and others on Countdown are important so do not risk hurting your platform’s credibility by a throw away remark. You are smarter than that.

And because you are a public persona, you will be targeted by the crazies (both fans and foes) who want to “get” you one way or the other. You (and unfortunately and unfairly those around you) pay that price for fame. You handle it much better than either Brittney or JLO, BTW

I hope you see ERT as an intelligent conversation of things Olbermann, Countdown and Countdown content. I think the hosts and guests do intend that.

I know I’m not very popular right now with the people who run this blog so I will not be the least bit surprised if this comment never sees the light of day, but…I applaud Fifty & Fabulous and I see things far more the way she does than the way Becky does.

The way I see it, you don’t need to be nearly as concerned what your enemies say about you as you do what your friends say about you. I fully expect Keith’s enemies to blow his comment about Fox Noise and Al Qaeda completely out of proportion and context…for heavens’ sakes, that’s what they DO. They can be relied upon to do so; they can be counted upon to do it. Doesn’t mean it will be noticed any more than a fart in a windstorm. I’m really not concerned.

As for the comment in which Keith overworries about not being able to see the fans who find him sexy, and expresses concern that they look more like Leona Helmsley than J. Lo…well, what can I say but that it’s a bad way to endear yourself to one of your biggest sources of viewership and support. To imply that you’re skeeved out about unseen women thinking you’re hot, because THEY might be old and ugly? Not good. And, as Fifty & Fabulous put it, not necessarily true about any of them either.

Keith, Keith, I thought YOU were the one who said age didn’t matter…please don’t look as if you’re contradicting yourself.

I think he was smart enough to mention Leona Helmsley instead of someone like… let’s say…. Rosie O’Donnell. I think he’s learned his lesson about picking on women with weight issues (I hope has).

Brother, please! I love you Keith, but I know a few thick black girls (including me) who love ya, but wish you hadn’t gone there.

Sorry, neither JLo or Leona Helmsley here, like most people, I believe. And we really do keep that kind of talk to a minimum here. Just because I enjoy watching someone on TV doesn’t mean that I’d actually want to meet him.

Frankly, I think anyone who posts on the Internet about their sexual fantasies whether involving the famous or not famous is asking for problems in addition to the ones they already have.

As for the other quote, yes, it is hyperbole and yes, he is very fond of that rhetorical device. But you could also make the arguement that the media have promoted a useless war that has resulted in more American deaths than the attacks of 9/11. There is also that pesky number of over 27,000 seriously wounded.

Fox News is the most egregious offender in this department, but they were not the only ones, by any means. The early reporting on Iraq and the run up to it was mostly about what a splendid little war it would be. The difference is that most of the MSM has backed away from that angle, Fox has not.

You know, it’s funny that the thought of non-J.Los thinking he’s attractive is strange, because that’s generally how folks seem to think of me when I admit I think he’s nice to look at. CURIOUS.

I’m going to parrot Hawaii with regards to the KKK comment. The idea that he was referencing the Colin Powell interview is nice, and if you’re just basing it on “Fox News rhetoric is just as dangerous as KKK rhetoric” then … okay, maybe it flies. But all the same, irrational rhetoric doesn’t kill, irrational people who act on rhetoric kill. Unless Bill-O or Murdoch has gone out and physically put a gun in somebody’s hand, I think we should really hold off on the KKK comparisons.

Not an all-around classy set of quotes, sorry to say.

I think KO should have referenced the entire media establishment in that comment. It was the media who helped the administration get their agenda across. FNC and Murdoch are the obvious target, but the rest of the MSM could have done their jobs. Why can’t every journalist be like Amy Goodman? Why I ask you? Why?

Thank you for clearing the air on this.

I did not feel any compulsion to race out and buy a Playboy or to try to read this interview online, and the only parts I knew of were what had been shared here.

That said, this was an interview. These were Keith’s comments.

There is a difference between speculation about random gossip from others or what might appear on the internet(s) and responding to quotes from the person in question.

If he chooses to share details of his personal life and inner thoughts, so be it.

He has occasionally done bits and pieces of this on the show as well.

The first time I heard him comment on his shoe size I was drinking a cup of rather hot tea, and the results were not pretty.

Probably said with a very specific target in mind, but everyone listening to the show heard it. Including my mother.

The rest of you have done an excellent job of analyzing the other quotes, but I would like to react a bit to the one on age as I found it hilarious.

I agree with what he said 100 %. As long as everyone involved is legally an adult, age should be a non issue.

However, I am certain that he was thinking of a situation where the man is 20 or more years the elder and would be horrified at the opposite.

Just thinking of how he reacted to the idea of Sophia Loren doing a strip tease at, is it 72?, and you know that that one would never fly.

Redtoots, I have yet to see anyone post anything about Keith online in the way of a serious sexual fantasy. I think in general, people are having fun saying silly things! I don’t know when it only became OK to have fun joking about sexual fantasies involving celebrities if you personally looked like a knockout yourself, but if it did, that’s a shame.

This is the man who once said on the radio of Julie Christie, “I’d like to Google her.” You don’t hear Julie Christie saying she’s “skeeved out” about it. And I seriously doubt that’s only because she’s so flattered that the Man Who’s Saving the Democracy would think that way of her.

I agree with 50 & Fab and Oren. When I read the first comment, I thought, “Hmmm, Keith’s having a little trouble with his new role of “Mainstream Celebrity”. For years he’s been able to fly under the radar as a “Niche Celebrity”, having some notoriety, but not be exposed to all the yucky celebrity stuff that goes on to the “A” listers. Besides, he was mostly a Sports Center celebrity in the past and not that women don’t watch Sports Center, but ESPN’s audience is primarily men. What man is going to go online and talk about KO in a sexual way? Unless of course that’s his cup of tea (and not that there’s anything wrong with that!). So KO get a grip and work that out in therapy rather than in Playboy. Remember, “Fame is a fickle food. Men eat of it and die. - Emily Dickinson”

The second quote, kind of sucked the air out of my lungs at first. I read an article recently that stated that while we may publicly denounce things like racism for example and if asked would emphatically state that we do not have a racist bone in our bodies, we all have some sort of racist tendencies we don’t always want to admit to. Sometimes an event or experience will trigger it to come to the surface despite our best Politically Correct intentions. Perhaps this is KO’s predicament. The issues between Fox and him bubbled up and his true feelings spoke out before his brain could think the better of it. At least that’s what I hope.

First salvo from FNC:

http://tinyurl.com/2zq5kn

Orin, it doesn’t happen here, but I have seen it. There is fanfic that is quite explicit.

2labpuppers seems to have hit upon a truth. Perhaps it isn’t just that success has spoiled Rock Hunter, it’s also spooked Rock Hunter. And given that Rock Hunter once had a particularly tenacious stalker even back in the old days, perhaps he thinks he has more reason to be spooked than most. But really, Keith, was that poor woman a bunny-boiler or just a very sad mentally ill person, like the one who killed herself after stalking Letterman? I know it’s hard to tell sometimes, but even from what you say, it sounds more like the latter.

Keith will probably never meet 99% of his fans. Why he should care whether they look like J. Lo or Jell-O?

Perhaps Playboy just has a bad effect on men. They grow up sneaking delicious forbidden peeks at it as kids, use it for other purposes as they become pimply adolescents, then if they work hard and happen to become successful and their thoughts sought after by its writers, they begin talking like mini-Hugh Hefners so as to project the notion that they themselves have actually achieved the lifestyle to which most Playboy readers merely aspire. Not to mention rhapsodizing about all the past Playmates they used to whack off to back when they were lonely teens. (TMI, guys…TMI.)

But regardless. I hope we don’t see a whole lot more like it.

As for Fox? What can I say? I don’t worry about what they think.

Orin, I have three brothers there is no perhaps about it: Playboy has a bad effect on men. ;)

[…] sure you all remember the Playboy interview back in September. Shortly after the release of the magazine (and after a couple of discussions of […]

RSS feed for comments on this post.